---- ## Overview - **Source**: [Congress.gov](https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114761/documents/HHRG-117-IG05-20220517-SD001.pdf) - **Author**: Document was leaked back in 2019 but is now apart of the official Congressional Record since early 2022. - **Date First Seen**: 2019 - **Classification**: #document - **Confidence of non-human/earth Origin:** HIGH ## Description Dr. [[👤 Eric W. Davis]] met with Admiral [[👤 Thomas R. Wilson]] in 2002. Davis had been trying to find information on a crash retrievals program. He had been advised by Will Miller to talk to Wilson about this. And Oke Shannon and Miller encouraged Wilson to talk to him too (“tell Eric what you told me”) because he wasn’t interested in fame or publicity and was a trustworthy and respected scientist. In the meeting with Davis, Admiral Wilson related that in April 1997 he had met with Will Miller, Edgar Mitchell and Steven Greer, who had been searching for information on and privately discussing UFOs with government and military officials. Afterward, Wilson and Miller spoke privately. Miller asked about crash retrievals programs, where they might be and who had access to them. Wilson was intrigued because he had heard about US and foreign government encounters, and he spent the next 45 days talking to people and doing a search. He was advised by Secretary of Defense Bill Perry and Major General Marshal Ward, who was the director of special programs, to go through the files, like an index system, of the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Acquisition and Technology. They said to look into a special projects record group not belonging to usual SAP, a subset of unacknowledged SAP’s. Paul Kaminski and Michael Kostelnik oversaw these programs. So Wilson had found the group that might run the program he was looking for. He then read the “index abstracts” and found a few programs to look into. Wilson called seven program managers. Three managers said they weren’t the right program he was looking for, and the other four referred him to the same program run by three people, a security director (former NSA), a program director, and a corporate attorney. Wilson told Davis that the SAP compartment, code name, and contractor or government agency that oversaw the program were all “core secrets.” He said it was managed by a top 3 defense contractor. Wilson called the program director three times and spoke with him, the security director, and the corporate attorney. They were surprised and agitated that he was looking for them and confused about what he wanted from them or to know about. He told them he had read their program record at the OUSDAT special program records group and wanted to know about their crashed UFO program, what their role was and what they had. He also asked if they had heard of an MJ-12 or other code organization related to crashed and recovered craft. They said yes. They asked Wilson who he had talked to before he called, and they weren’t happy with his answer and who those four program managers were who had referred him to them. Wilson demanded a formal briefing and tour. He had regulatory oversight as Deputy Director of DIA and Assistant JCOS. They agreed to an in-person meeting. Wilson flew out to meet the three managers - security director, program director and corporate attorney - at a conference room in their secure vault. They called themselves the “watch committee,” or gatekeepers. They said they formed out of necessity to protect themselves after a near disaster in the past had almost blown their cover. An audit investigation had led to them and they were nearly outed, which was exactly what they were trying to avoid. A back and forth with the investigator and his Pentagon chief over program transparency ensued, money was the original issue but their hiding out became the other issue. They threatened to blow the program’s cover so the managers backed down and let the investigator in to complete his job. The investigator was officially briefed, given a tour, and shown their program. After that incident, the program managers reached a formal agreement with the Special Access Program Oversight Committee (SAPOC) to prevent that from happening in the future. The agreement established extremely strict criteria for the circumstances under which anyone could get access in the future. The contractor committee - the program director, security director and attorney - set the criteria. No US government officials could gain access unless they met those criteria. They refused to tell Wilson what the criteria were. He was angry because of the implication that they operated without any official oversight or any justification. They let Wilson know the purpose of the meeting was that they were again concerned about exposure and asked for all of his phone, fax and email records to see who he had talked to at the Pentagon and elsewhere. They refused to give him access. He had sufficient security clearance but not the need to know, so he wasn’t on the “bigot list,” the list of all people who had been granted access to the program. They wouldn’t accept Wilson’s argument that they fell under his statutory oversight and regulatory authority as Deputy Director of DIA. In any other situation, the Deputy Director has a right to the need to know for all SAP’s. They said that his regulatory and oversight authority was not pertinent to the nature of their program. They showed him the “bigot list” of individuals who had been read into the program. The list included a lot of contractor employees, mostly scientists, engineers and managers. Wilson didn’t recognize any military personnel, there was no one from the Clinton administration, and no one from Congress. A few were from the Pentagon - a few from OUSDAT, someone from another department, and someone at the NSC. The program managers said they weren’t a weapons, intelligence or special ops program. Wilson asked what they were then. The attorney and security director said it was ok to brief Wilson and to tell him they were a reverse engineering program for something that had been recovered years before. Wilson asked if they were reverse engineering Soviet or Chinese technology, but they said they weren’t doing that either. The program manager said they had a craft they believed could fly (Davis makes an interesting note here about the transmedium nature of the craft being able to “fly” through air, water, space, dimensions). Wilson asked if it was from overseas and they said no, that it could not possibly be. They said they didn’t know where it was from, although they had some ideas, but knew it was not of this earth and not made by humans. They were trying to understand and exploit the technology, but the program had been going on for years and years with very slow progress due to lack of collaboration between different people, lack of outside experts, and they were very isolated and had to use their own facilities and only cleared personnel. The bigot list contained about 400-800 individuals who had been given access to the program since its beginning, varying over time with funding and personnel changes. Wilson asked some of the questions he had discussed with Miller, including Roswell craft, bodies and autopsies, the Holloman AFB landing, MJ-12, and the Zamora and Bentwaters cases. They declined to discuss any of those topics. Wilson threatened to go to SAPOC to complain and gain access to their program, and they said go ahead and do what you have to do. Wilson was furious because they had defied his ability to be read-in with good logical reasoning. Wilson started to believe Corso was telling the truth about alien hardware in his book The Day After Roswell based on what he had learned in this meeting. Wilson complained to the SAPOC Senior Review Committee. They sustained the contractor’s access denial. They told him to drop the matter and let it go because he didn’t have purview over their project and it didn’t fall under his oversight. Wilson argued with them, and the SRG Chief John Deutch said if he didn’t follow their suggestion, he would not be promoted to Director of DIA, he would get early retirement, and he would lose one or two stars. Wilson was livid because his position was specifically to have oversight over those programs. Davis asked about the bigot list again, and Wilson said it contained OUSDAT people, and two on SAPOC. Paul and Mike had been replaced at OUSDAT, Mike by Brigadier General Gansler. Wilson then said he had talked to Gansler about six months after his meeting with the program managers, and he told him what had happened there. Gansler said he had been briefed into the program by someone. Gansler said UFO’s are real but alien abductions are not real. He told Wilson to drop the matter and said he wouldn’t discuss it further. Wilson confirmed to Davis that he called Miller in June 1997 to confirm that in his search he had positively identified the existence of an MJ-12 organization overseeing UFO crash retrievals programs. Davis asked Wilson if he’d talk to Hal Puthoff and Kit Green, but Wilson said he preferred not to talk about it again and risk exposure. Davis said he wouldn’t repeat anything he was told and that he would just use the notes for his own personal research to help ascertain signals and noise in the media and from government sources. ## Evidence Items - https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114761/documents/HHRG-117-IG05-20220517-SD001.pdf - [[Eric-Davis-meeting-with-Adm-Wilson.pdf]] ## References - https://www.reddit.com/r/ChilluminatiPod/comments/118mgcb/former_director_of_the_dia_defense_intelligence/